Merge HaxePunk with FlashPunk?

(Abel Toy) #1

Hello!

So, I guess some of you are aware there’s a version of FlashPunk for Haxe called HaxePunk.

HaxePunk started off from a version of FlashPunk, but it has improved in some bits, adding more functionality here and there. At the same time, FlashPunk has also improved some of its stuff in a different way, thus sorta making each version go into its own path.

Now, I don’t know if you’re aware, but Haxe libs can actually be used with AS3 projects if the library is published to a swc file.

I was wondering if maybe we want to make this a joint project with HaxePunk, merging and unifying both versions so we actually just have a single code base to maintain, and both versions can benefit from each other’s improvements without having to port stuff from one to the other over and over again.

Any thoughts?

(TaylorAnderson) #2

Sounds like a good idea! Would we be migrating away from straight AS3 towards something more like OpenFL? (I have no idea how these things work, only that OpenFL operates a lot like AS3 but has more flexibility)

(TaylorAnderson) #3

I’m gonna be honest, having flirted with Haxepunk a little bit earlier this summer I like this community a lot better than the HaxePunk forums, so itd be good to be able to come here to figure out HaxePunk woes :stuck_out_tongue:

(Abel Toy) #4

Well, the thing is Haxe should be able to build to a swc file and you should be able to use the library in AS3 code…

But now I’m wondering if the fact it’s built on top of OpenFL would support this?

(TaylorAnderson) #5

I’ve no idea, sorry :stuck_out_tongue: But maybe it would be a good thing to move on from AS3?

(Jacob Albano) #6

I like Haxe a lot, and OpenFL has allowed me to spend an hour today building my game on Windows, Mac, and Linux with no changes to my code. It’s a cool framework.

BUT

I’ve also had a million problems with it recently…like having Sound lengths being set to 1000x their proper values. The guys working on OpenFL are doing good work, but there’s a huge amount of work to be done. I think it’s great that HaxePunk exists, but I couldn’t support a merging of the two projects.

(TaylorAnderson) #7

Yeah the main thing thats kept me away is lack of support and a looott of documented issues for it. Maybe all it needs is more time for the people working on it to get it into a good shape.

(Ultima2876) #8

I found the same thing. Unfortunately I don’t think it’s a good idea either.

That said, we’d probably want to be looking to the future of FlashPunk somewhere because as it is progress is pretty slow and flash is becoming less relevant.

HTML5Punk? :smiley:

(TaylorAnderson) #9

I agree. Although HaxePunk is lacking in features and isnt always solid, I think perhaps its most damning trait is its hostility towards newcomers, especially those who havent made games before (but even to those who have, it was one hell of a journey setting it up even for me). So I think if / when we do migrate Flashpunk, we should make sure its still very friendly to newcomers.

(Ultima2876) #10

Yes, absolutely! Couldn’t agree more :slight_smile:

(Darrin) #11

I have a noob question. What does merging code lose us? I understand that Haxe is not as friendly (makes me sad) and they have issues with ports, etc. But how is the HaxePunk/Flashpunk layer effected? If we made a change, would we have to wait for it be working on HaxePunk? The other things is how much work is it? Only so much time in the day so if this is going to take 500 hours, seems very high risk.

(Nicole Brauer) #12

I agree with both sides on this topic. I think that something along the lines of HaxePunk is the direction to go forward. Over the last few months I have checked it out quite thoroughly and am in the process of “porting” my current project to HaxePunk. Just the fact that without almost any work you can compile your game not only to flash, but also to desktop (PC, Mac, even Linux!) + mobile + html5. That’s so awesome. And especially since a lot of people are moving away from flash and the whole uprising of greenlight and itch.io and stuff like that, if you want to make a bigger project or even something that you can get something back from flash is not really the way to go.

That said, if FlashPunk had the possibility to publish on desktop I would very much stick with it. The community is so much better!! There is a lot more going on here than in the HaxePunk forums, more people, more open to newcomers and lots of tutorials and code snippets. Haxe isn’t all that difficult getting started with but there is nobody to tell you how. The documentation and guides of HaxePunk are pretty horrible, even the site looks kinda crapy (I mean compare it to HaxeFlixel!!! They are a lot further in that regard, and the community seems way more active).

And in the end i just love FlashPunk.

I think that HaxePunk could be just as great if only more people would contribute and try to get a sort of community together. So in the end I woudl say yes to a merge. but I have no idea to what degree and how you could make that possible.

But it would be cool to have the best of both worlds. And it would be really crap if this community declines because people are turning their backs on Flash.

(Mike Evmm) #13

Adobe Air is a pretty great way to publish FlashPunk to desktop (and solutions like Dave’s Stage3dPunk work for mobile, too). I’m personally not too fond of HaxePunk for many reasons, one of them being I’m too lazy to learn how to use Haxe and HaxePunk (and don’t really enjoy having to use a CMD window to set up/compile/deploy a project), so I’ve kept myself from opining, but I think that a merge is a pretty big move and should be thoroughly considered.

(Nicole Brauer) #14

Yeah, I haven’t really used it much but Stage3DPunk is pretty great. But since I’m currently not really targeting mobile I don’t have a lot of use for it.

I used Adobe Air for publishing my last project and personally didn’t like it at all. While it is cool to have all the functionality like saving/writing/reading to disk, fullscreen and all that stuff with AS3. It was annoying to use, the Air installer thing i found to be really crap and most of all, no Linux support. I guess I’m just not really fond of what Adobe has doing in the recent years (especially to Flash). : )

And yes, your right, the whole command line thing to install / set everything up was a major turndown for me as well at the beginning. But you only really have to use it for installing HaxePunk, not for compiling and deploying. I actually use FlashDevelop for HaxePunk just like before, the workflow is the same, and it works really great. No need to touch the CMD even. : )

(Mike Evmm) #15

Hum, maybe I should look deeper into Haxe then. It is a pretty big advantage to have a “universal” language.
Regarding Adobe’s recent course of action, I agree. They’ve always been a very commercially motivated company (which I suppose is normal with big companies anyway), meaning they mostly just support what earns them money (it’s damn near impossible to downgrade any Adobe products by legal means). Linux Air used to be a thing, but, quote, “Adobe has decided to change the distribution model for Linux and direct these resources toward its mobile efforts”. Notice that I’m not in any way condemning this - it’s perfectly reasonable for a company to redirect resources to whatever works best - but there’s just something about adobe’s philosophy <small(300 dollars a month for the CS?!!?) that I’m just not fond of.

On a side note, remember when someone developed a program (can’t remember the name), some time before Air (and even before Flash Lite), that enabled users to package flash and run it on symbian? After Flash Lite came out, Adobe simply bought it and made it disappear. That’s the kind of thing that Adobe has done more than once (I vaguely remember another program that packaged SWFs to EXEs having a similar fate?) and that makes me question their decisions.
Damn, this was a big post.

(Ultima2876) #16

Haxe is pretty awesome. HTML5 and Unity are technologies that are worth a look too if you have decided that Flash isn’t for you any more!

HTML5Punk, anyone? :wink:

My biggest problem with Haxe was the fragmentation between codebases for targeting various devices. It wasn’t quite there yet, community support was scarce and honestly I felt that it really required quite a serious level of programming skill to sort out the many bugs and issues. This wasn’t really a problem for me (I actually quite enjoyed writing my own engine on top of what was there to get around the issues I found!) but I know that a lot of the best game developers come from the design side of things and programming is just a necessary evil for them rather than a passion.

However, I haven’t used it in a long time and it’s possible that this isn’t a problem any more!

[As a side note, the linux thing was also a major reason I was looking into Haxe].

(Nicole Brauer) #17

This is exactly me which is why I was quite suprised how well I’m getting along with Haxe. Or maybe I just haven’t hit the point yet where I learn otherwise.

I was thinking of doing a small introduction/tutorial series for HaxePunk, like there is for FlashPunk, if anyone is interested to see more about it.

HTML5Punk would be awesome but if it meant splitting up into yet another community seperate from the other that would be just too much fracturing.

(Zachary Lewis) #18

I don’t know much about Haxe or HaxePunk, so I’d be terrible at answering any technical questions that are related to Haxe; although, I do know a lot about the design principles of the FlashPunk framework and can answer pretty much any high-level question related to it.

I don’t mind having a Haxe-oriented section here, but I’m afraid it might cause some of the same issues Stage3DPunk did (where people ask questions without mentioning key information, such as the fact that they’re using a framework that isn’t FlashPunk, making the whole question a clusterfuck of confusion). That said, if a universal GamePunk Engine project matured enough, I’d have no problem running the community for everyone.

I’ve not seen any of the other game engine communities, but I’m confident that we’re the best one. :wink: :shipit:

(Ultima2876) #19

Agreed on every point :stuck_out_tongue:

(TaylorAnderson) #20

I can say confidently that we’re certainly better than the Haxepunk (no offense to those guys). Responses here are usually much quicker / much more helpful. If there’s one thing I really don’t want to lose from Flashpunk its these forums